Knight In White Satin

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Obviously, since this is happening at a university campus, there is a fairly strict "no weapons allowed" policy except for, maybe, the masquerade, but how about BlueGuns? These are the blue, practice guns that military and law enforcement use for training. My costuming pretty much requires some form of weapon to make it complete and I'm hoping the BlueGuns might pass muster for the school to allow.



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David Morris

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Unfortunately, the Gonzaga policy is not quite as specific enough to suit me. It states no props can be used that fire projectiles (a blue gun does not) but also no prop can be used that looks like a real firearm. A blue gun does, sort of, and in a way it does not. I will seek some clarification on that point. Can you tell me what specific type of gun your blue guns would simulate? (ie. automatic pistol, AR-15, etc...)



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Knight In White Satin

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David, thanks for your quick response. My costuming would carry an MP5 Assault Rifle and a Taurus 27/7 semi-auto handgun. Both can be found with photos here: Blue Gun Training Replicas. But, realistically, there's no way anyone could mistake these for real guns, honestly.



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Scott Spicer

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I don't see a problem with it except it looks real, being an exact replica. Except for the color. The real test will be if Gonzaga Security has a problem with it.

Knight In White Satin

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Yes, the design is real, and so is the weight, but the bright blue color is a pretty good indicator that it's fake. I suppose Gonzaga COULD say that because it's a copy of the gun, it looks too real, but that, in my opinion, would be nit-picky. If they wanted to discuss REAL looking, I could show them my Air-Soft MP5 or M4. I'll respect their decision no matter what, but I will feel kind of foolish walking around as a Colonial Marine without some kind of weapon. lol



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Tim Martin

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When we were not allowed to have Nerf guns on campus for a game... well... that tells you about the level of over-protection there is ... Eye

I am sure that we can come up with a compromise with campus security and work within our own guidelines. The "peace" boding could be that the replica pistol could be zip tied into the holster. I still find the concept of a zip-tie on a weapon to render it "useless" rather silly - but it's a visible indicator that the weapon will not be used as such.

I know that any weapon is just part of costume to make it more complete. The big concern is the non-members roaming about.

There is a solution, and we'll get it taken care of as quickly as possible.

Your input is appreciated!



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David Morris

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I will try to have a reply by Tuesday next week...



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David Morris

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I was out of town for two days, so I apologize for the delay. I have spoken with Mr.Vansant of the GU security department. He has always been very easy to work with and this is no exception. He said he will consider the suggestion, but he stated right away that he does not want to take any steps toward guns that look real. He asked that we provide him with a photo of the actual blue gun or guns that Knight in White Satin wishes to bring.

So, Knight, what do you say? Will you please e-mail a photo of the actual blue gun or guns to me? I can forward them to GU. From there, Mr. Vansant will take them to a safety committee for the final decision. My email address is davem@spocon.org.

Mr. Vansant and his supervisor, Mr. Hart, have always expressed appreciation for our professionalism and cooperation, so I think they will give us a fair shake! That is the best we can do--it is their campus after all!

Knight in White Satin, I appreciate the reasonable and hopeful stance you have taken on your request. Believe me, I want you to have a con experience that is as fun as it can possibly be!

David Morris



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Knight In White Satin

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David,
Just thought I'd drop a line to see what might be happening. I sent those photos to you several days ago, but hadn't heard back from you. The point MAY be moot because of personal finances anyway, but I'd still like the option if possible.

Thanks again for your assistance and persistence.



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David Morris

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Sorry for not replying, Knight! I got the photos. Now we are waiting to hear back from GU. With the holidays and people going out of town, and the way committees work, we may be waiting for a few more weeks to hear back. Please don't think you are forgotten...

By the way...Merry Christmas!



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jackmcgillis

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An odd thought perhaps...

When I was in basic training in the 70's I was issued a Blue M16. And yes, it fired. Almost all were Black, 3 or 4 were Green and I got *the* Blue one. I still wonder what environment that weapon was intended for.

True story.

On a more serious note. Back in the 90's some firearm manufacturers chose to make functional pistols that were colored. Bright Green comes to mind. I think, grain of salt, that the TEC-9 came that way.

A slippery slope?

Note: I am not anti-gun. Own several, some of which are illegal in states that I don't live in.

Tim Martin

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I have a pink rifle in my house Smiling Okay, it's actually my daughter's Mossberg 802 Plinkster, and it is very pink. I have also seen a pink cammo P-22, several "pink hello kitty" AR-15, AK's, and other assault rifles. A friend is building his wife a purple cammo AR-15... so colors abound!

The issue isn't color, it's realism, and not wanting people freaking out. I have more than one costume with holsters, that I typically have to leave empty as most policies prevent firearms or replicas (but it's still okay for an untrained 18yo kid to run around with a sharp sword .... o_O).

We are continuing to work on the policy and negotiating with GU. It will all work out.



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Nick

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Any chance of Nerf guns being okay'd for the Firefly LARP?

jackmcgillis

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Nick wrote:

Any chance of Nerf guns being okay'd for the Firefly LARP?

Will you have Nerf handcuffs for prisoners? Sorry. Had to.

Tim Martin

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Last word we had from GU was, sadly, no NERF® guns.

We would like to address the issue again, in relation to the Firefly LARP. The use of the NERF® guns will be contained into a smallish area and monitored. Since it's part of the game, we are pitching for it!



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jackmcgillis

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Have you thought about having events like this offsite? Riverfront park is close.

Joe Dellwo

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Here is the weapons policy as it sits at this moment for SpoCon.

SpoCon at Gonzaga University

Weapons policy –

This policy is an exception to the Gonzaga University Weapons Policy and is effective only during the SpoCon event, no earlier than July 30, 2010 and no later than August 1, 2010. This exception is solely for the facilitation of the SpoCon event and does not convey or imply any endorsement by Gonzaga University of possession or use of any weapon. This policy treats weapons as display items only and prohibits any active use of a weapon at any location on campus.

Signing the SpoCon registration form is an acknowledgment by the participant that he/she will comply with this weapons policy and all other Gonzaga University policies, rules and expectations, as well as all laws.

Gonzaga University may restrict the possession and display of weapons to certain areas of campus during this event. Any “no weapon zones” will be described in writing and provided at the time of registration. It is the responsibility of the participant to know these areas.

All weapons deemed acceptable under this policy must be peace-bonded by SpoCon Security. SpoCon Security staff are the only persons allowed to peace-bond a weapon. Gonzaga Campus Security will not peace-bond a weapon. Gonzaga University accepts no responsibility for the peace-bonding process.

All weapons that can be carried in scabbards, sheaths, or holsters must be secured in a scabbard, sheath, or holster and be peace-bonded by SpoCon Security. Weapons that are not able to be placed in a scabbard, sheath or holster will be examined on a case-by-case basis by both SpoCon and Gonzaga Security. Either SpoCon or Gonzaga Security have the authority to deem a weapon unacceptable. If one Security department deems it unacceptable, the other party may not counter that decision. Weapons deemed acceptable will be flagged by colored tape or a colored wrist-band type device. This will act as an indicator that is has been examined and will be allowed in SpoCon.

Participants found possessing any acceptable weapon that is not peace-bonded will be directed to immediately contact SpoCon Security. If SpoCon Security is not available to peace-bond the weapon, it must be removed to participant’s room or vehicle or taken off campus and remain there until SpoCon Security is available.

Participants found possessing any non-acceptable weapon, including any firearms, are subject to immediate removal from the event, referral to law enforcement and confiscation of the weapon.

Weapons that fire a projectile of any type are not permitted. This includes BB or pellet guns, airsoft guns, paintball guns, NERF weapons, and water guns.

Firearms and replica firearms are not permitted. This includes stage prop and starter pistols and weapons with an orange or red barrel tip

Non-firing, non-real weapons (Blasters, Ray Guns, etc.) are allowed, but must be easily recognizable and blatantly obvious as a non-real weapon, remain holstered and be peace-bonded by SpoCon Security.

Explosive and incendiary devices are not permitted.

Folding pocket knives with blades less than 3” and Leatherman type tools are permitted and do not require peace-bonding.

Drawing or brandishing of any weapon is prohibited at any location on campus. Role playing with any weapon is prohibited. Participants violating this policy are subject to immediate removal from the event without refund and confiscation of the weapon, depending on the circumstances of the violation. If the participant is not removed, he/she may be directed to take the weapon to his/her room, vehicle or off campus. Repeat violations will not be tolerated.

Any participant possessing an acceptable weapon must also carry identification, state-issued identification is preferred, but a SpoCon attendees badge will suffice.

Participants must comply with the directives of SpoCon Security, Gonzaga Campus Security and any law enforcement agent. This includes a request to inspect any weapon or request to present identification at any time. Failure to comply will result in immediate removal from the event without refund.

Weapons deemed acceptable under this policy may be offered for sale by vendors approved by the SpoCon organizers. All purchased weapons must be immediately peace-bonded or taken off campus. Private sale of weapons is not permitted on campus.

Weapons deemed not acceptable under this policy may be displayed by vendors, but may not be sold or exchanged on campus. Buyers/vendors must make alternative arrangements for the sale and exchange of non-acceptable weapons

Any participant carrying or possessing a weapon deemed acceptable under this policy accepts legal and financial responsibility for that weapon and damage the weapon may cause to persons or property.

If a known, established group contacts SpoCon in advance with a request to do live weapon demonstrations, they may be given permission to do so, but this will only be granted on a case-by-case basis. The following requirements must be met:

-The group must provide proof that they have their own insurance to cover any and all mishaps in which they are involved

-Only their own members may conduct weapons demonstrations, no guests or regular Con attendees may participate

-The demonstration area must be cordoned off from the general public entering, or behind some sort of barriers

-The group must provide their own marshalls to oversee the event and protect the participants and spectators

-They must provide and use adequate protective equipment SpoCon and Gonzaga Security reserve the right to decide what is adequate.



Joseph Dellwo
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SpoCon 2012